WEBVTT 1 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 00:00:00.870 --> 00:00:21.050 Thank you so much for joining us perhaps for a second time for today's CLE Mental health with focus on trauma and the legal profession and in the practice of law. My name is David Collin. I'm an assistant attorney general, and a member of the Fun and wellness Committee of the Attorney General's office, which is pleased to be hosting today's. 2 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 00:00:21.050 --> 00:00:55.850 CLE. Our pres this presentation is a full hour. Our speaker is presenting from the start again. So if you attended the 30 min program last week on 15 May 2nd half will start at 02:30. The office has applied for the new mental health credit for this program. The event code number is 530308 which is pending. Again, that number is 530308 and it will be posted period. 3 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 00:00:55.850 --> 00:01:16.320 In the chat during the program. You are encouraged to ask questions or add comments during the program. Please post them in the chat and we'll try to get to them at the end. Presenting for us today is Joan Beapolehousan, who has served as executive director of lawyers Concern for Lawyers since 2005. 4 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:36.320 She's an attorney and has spent more than two decades working with lawyers, judges, and law students at the crossroads of mental illness and addiction concerns, well being, stress, and related issues. Joan has been nationally recognized for her work and is the recipient of the 2024. 5 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 00:01:36.320 --> 00:02:04.993 Minnesota State Virus Association's Lifetime Achievement award. This will be Joan's last presentation for our office because she is retiring next month. From the attorney General's office, we want to say congratulations and thank you Joan, for your dedication to the legal community and all that you have done to help make us stronger, healthier, and more hopeful. And with that said, I'll turn it over to you Joan. Thanks so much for being here. 6 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:02:04.993 --> 00:02:37.780 Well, thank you David. That was really kind, I appreciated, and we really appreciate the opportunity to be in front of this group. You know, those, I know not all of you work for the ag's office, but for those of you who do, you're my lawyer, so, we're trying to provide some service back to you. This is a program that we're varying a little bit from our standard mental health and substance use one because we want to talk a little bit about the exposure that we have to the things that are affecting others. So it might be that. 7 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:02:37.780 --> 00:02:57.780 That, it's a, it can be any kind of case where the facts are somewhat traumatic and you're dealing with that or it maybe that the person has had other traumatic experiences that are being shared in the context of the case, but they're not necessarily related to the case. And that can be happening whether you are representing. 8 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:30.170 Planning somebody who works for an agency and they've got some things going on in their life or the case is difficult for them. It can happen in so many different ways. And so we wanna acknowledge that these kinds of things can affect us and that we're all gonna respond to them differently. So the topic today is gonna start with a perspective of caring, that here we are as people who are in this profession because we care about other people, and it might be that you chose your practice area because of that or your employer became. 9 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:03:30.170 --> 00:03:53.750 Because of that or it could be that, you generally like the idea of somebody needs somebody to represent them, to be there, to tell their story because they can't do it themselves within the legal system. Some of you might not be practicing at all, but you're still keeping your licenses. I'm one of those people, and so you probably find ways to. 10 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:03:53.750 --> 00:04:17.240 To use your law degree every day and that includes saying what can I do to help this person? We're also gonna talk about the challenges in our professional stress and trauma and mental health challenges. We're gonna talk about some well being resources and activities, maybe some things that your committee will is already looking at or may look at, and some of the resources that are. 11 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:37.240 Available to you including the organization I work for lawyers concerned for lawyers. And for those of you who are state employees or other government employees or have an employee assistance program in your workplace because government employees generally do, LCL is like that for the entire legal profession. 12 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:57.559 And so, it means that if you already have an EAP, you can stack benefits. But it means that if you don't, you have one available to you just because you're in this profession. And it's not just the lawyers. It's people who work with lawyers. So the way we refer to it is any legal professional and our services are free and confidential. 13 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:04:57.559 --> 00:05:25.669 And if you stick around to the end, I'll give that in much more detail, but I encourage you to take a look at, the information that we have provided and it gives you a lot more detail on some of the things I'm gonna talk about today. So I'm gonna start out with a perspective of where we're at. I think we all know, you know, the, the lawyers had a chance a couple weeks ago to retake our oath and 600 of us gather. 14 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:05:25.669 --> 00:05:59.719 At the Hannifan County government center and did that. The rule of law is something that is being discussed in a way that probably none of us could have imagined a year ago or or five years ago. And who are we as lawyers? What is our role? And what opportunities do we have, but also what threats are we experiencing? And so we're paying attention to this in a different way, and it is a source of stress for us, of course. And then there are ongoing impacts from the pandemic. For some it might be grief. 15 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:05:59.719 --> 00:06:19.719 Something that that wasn't fair. For others it might be still dealing with workplace changes. And, you know, we had to respond very quickly to changes that have to had to happen. And some of those things we've kept because they're good, but there continue to be challenges where people say, well, what. 16 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:06:19.719 --> 00:06:39.719 Whatever it is you did to try and take care of all of us, we don't think you should have and we wanna, you know, we're gonna go after that. So those kinds of impacts. I don't need to talk about elections. They are ever present in public service because it may impact who is the leader in your organization depending on who is appointed or elected, and. 17 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:06:39.719 --> 00:07:00.529 The kinds of transitions that we might be going through, whether it's personally or professionally. If you're in public service, you are aware that jobs are being lost or changed and that has an impact on everybody. And so we've all got additional stress and anxiety, and that includes the people that. 18 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:07:00.529 --> 00:07:19.049 You serve. We bring into that some things that are related to how we think as lawyers, whether you're actively practicing or not or if you are watching this as a legal professional who's not a lawyer, you, you are certainly seeing this and maybe you've absorbed some of it. So. 19 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:07:19.049 --> 00:07:39.049 We look for ways in which we could make moment NO mistakes and we strive to, we strive for perfection and we know that if we have a faulty tickler system and we miss the statute of limitations, that there could be NO practice, there could be major impacts, those kinds of things could happen. 20 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:07:39.049 --> 00:08:02.429 So we can't miss a thing. So that perfection is something that we, we live with and perfection is something that can kind of morph into something called maladaptive perfectionism, where we're thinking if I don't get everything I want and I can't do it perfectly, then I am at fault. 21 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:08:02.429 --> 00:08:22.429 I am less than. I am not capable, and it's not a reasonable thought, but a lot of times the thoughts we have when we're affected by things like perfectionism are not reasonable, and yet somehow we think they should be. And so that could have a really debilitating effect on us. The. 22 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:08:22.429 --> 00:08:43.349 You know, we're gonna make mistakes. Nobody's a perfect driver. You might run a stop sign, and sometimes there's an impact and sometimes it's significant, and other times it's like, whoa, I didn't see that. What could have happened? All right? But we don't go to, I should never drive again. I'm the worst driver ever. Why did I ever think I could drive? 23 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:08:43.349 --> 00:09:01.469 And yet we can do that within the work that we do. And so if you find yourself thinking, I reached for the sky, I didn't get the sky, I'm a failure. Step back and say wait a minute, something's going on here and and maybe I should talk to somebody. That's one of the things we can help you with. 24 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:09:01.469 --> 00:09:25.699 We also are professional pessimists. We look for the worst that could happen. That's our job. And you know if you're if you're looking at negotiating some sort of contract or grant agreement or something like that, you're trying to imagine every breach. And so you're looking for the worst that could happen. If you're initiate. 25 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:09:25.699 --> 00:09:46.849 In a lawsuit. You're looking for every possible damage or every possible outcome. And you're looking for that because that's what we get paid to do. But sometimes we take that into our personal lives and it doesn't always have to be that way. We can say, alright, I have to play a pessimism, a passimist for our job. You remember that, I can't remember what commercial. 26 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:09:46.849 --> 00:10:13.159 Well it was, but you know, I'm not a dr., but I play one on TV. Well I'm not a pessimist, but I play one at work, you have to do that sometimes, but we don't always have to take it home. So can you switch it on and off? Is it something where you can say, Well wait a minute, I don't have to look for the worst thing because it's not that important or it's not the right thing to be thinking about right now. I or before I even had this job, one of the things I. 27 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:35.639 What I did is I worked as an election judge. And, so I knew that I knew that pretty well. I'd been a chair judge. And, a while later, I had a friend who had a terminal illness and I took that person to the poles and they needed a lot of help in order to vote and they weren't sure they were gonna be able to vote before they passed away. 28 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:55.639 And I found myself looking at all of the things that were not quite right. You know how the, something is supposed to be a certain number of feet from something else and all of those kinds of things. And, and that's what I was looking at. And, I turned my friend over to the people who would, would help them. 29 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:10:55.639 --> 00:11:25.549 So that, they had privacy and when they finished, they just said, I never thought I would be able to do this and they had tears in their eyes. And I realized that I wasn't paying attention to my friend. I was looking for what was wrong. And so, that was really a lesson to me about, you don't have to take that pessimism into every part of your life, at which I had done that day. And I was able to back out of it and, and be present and and. 30 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:11:25.549 --> 00:11:45.979 Then I did mention it's a chair judge on the way out that there was one thing that I thought really ought to be fixed, but, you know, who are you there for and where should you be in the moment to do that? We do a lot of our work in isolation which can make us uncertain. You think about it, you know, you might be sitting in a room with a team and talking about how you're gonna pursue. 31 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:11:45.979 --> 00:12:07.039 Proceed with something. But you might be having a second, you might be second share or have a second share in a courtroom, you're together. But when you're really figuring it out, when you're really thinking about it, you're doing it by yourself. And that isolation can be something that keeps us from connecting with the people that really matter. 32 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:36.689 Matter to us and it can be a challenge. And that makes us less certain about who we are. And then we're exposed to other people's trauma or we may have brought trauma with us into this profession. Sometimes trauma is something that we experienced secondarily or directly that said, I wanna be in the legal profession, either because it didn't go so well and the system ought to be able to do this better and I want to be that person. 33 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:12:36.689 --> 00:12:56.689 Or it might be, you know, what happened with me or with my case or with the case of somebody I cared about, I would like to do that work. And so you you bring that with you and we might carry it, but can we function with what is going on with it? And so you might need to do some. 34 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:12:56.689 --> 00:13:19.699 Additional self care with that. Sometimes like in my experience, my my experience was that I worked with victims of domestic abuse. It was pretty, pretty early in ** when that was becoming something where victims were really getting help. And there wasn't a legal system that really got it. There weren't lawyers who were really taking it. 35 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:13:19.699 --> 00:13:38.099 And the legal profession wasn't terribly informed. We had trouble finding lawyers to help the victims. And so I went to law school because I was dealing with people who were traumatized. And what happened with me is that. 36 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:13:38.099 --> 00:13:58.099 Well, I still cared about this, I found that I was kind of cynical and that it had gotten to me. And yet that's why I went to law school, so I really had to think about that and what it meant to be doing the work I was doing. Today, I work with people who are hurting. I'm doing exactly what is what I went to law school for. 37 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:13:58.099 --> 00:14:18.099 But it's a little bit different than the exact topic that I thought it would be. And so what I had experienced was secondary trauma, where I was exposed to the feelings and emotions and hearing the story directly from the person and their fear. 38 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:14:18.099 --> 00:14:52.369 And their sadness of the relationship that had become what it had become, their worries for the whether their children would be safe, would they get out of this? All of that was part of it. And so my cynecism was a reaction to being constantly exposed to that. Secondary and vikarious trauma are interchangeable, but there is a difference. Secondary tends to be, and it is diagnosible as a mental health condition, secondary. 39 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:14:52.369 --> 00:15:13.259 Post traumatic stress disorder, but it's where you're exposed to the people. And then bicarrious trauma is where you're exposed to the reports. And often in our profession we're exposed to both. It really depends kind of on what your setting is, but you can be as impacted by reading multiple. 40 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:31.679 Accounts of the same set of facts in order to, you know, who said this and who said this and who are all the witnesses, really depending on what that circumstance might be. And so we can be affected by that and we can be affected by it being repetitive because when trauma happens, it's not like. 41 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:51.679 You know, it, there's things where you say, well, if you do this and you keep doing it, and even though it hurts, it'll make you stronger. Traumas not like that. What happens with trauma is that just imagine you're, and we had one of these when I went to college, there's a great big expansive grass, and you walk across that expansive grass. 42 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:15:51.679 --> 00:16:22.289 Grass diagonally because it's quicker than going on the sidewalk around it, ok? So over time, the grass becomes kind of troddened down and then it becomes kind of brown because people are walking on it all the time, and then there's just dirt. And then that trench gets deeper and finally they put down a sidewalk. But that trauma to the the soil is underneath it. And so the repetitive exposure to the triggers of trauma, it, it can make it deeper unless you have tools. 43 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:16:22.289 --> 00:16:42.289 And we'll talk about that. And it's also important to recognize that this is an ethics issue and that when we're feeling anxiety, when we're feeling overwhelmed, and and trauma can make us anxious, we're gonna act rationally. We're gonna do something to get away from this as quickly as we can, and we're gonna do something in our own self interest. And what that. 44 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:16:42.289 --> 00:17:08.899 That means is that we're going to avoid. We're going to avoid reminders and that may mean that we don't get back to a client so it becomes a communication issue. But it also can go to are we performing competently and are we performing diligently? Are we working at the the level that we are capable of or are we impacted by something that's keeping us from doing that? And this could also affect. 45 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:17:08.899 --> 00:17:28.899 Somebody who's in a supervisory position. If you have someone where they're, they're not performing the way you would expect is something going on with them. And so 1st and foremost, you're concerned about them as a person, but then what might happen is it's like, oh, this work is being affected and they're missing things. And so that might become a professional responsibility. 46 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:17:28.899 --> 00:17:35.819 The issue for you as the supervisor if you knew and didn't do anything. 47 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:55.819 I have seen, in fact I can't remember any cases where 5.1 was a public discipline, but it is something to be aware of in if you're in that kind of a position. And related to this is something called empathy distress fatigue, which has a synonym that is similar. 48 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:17:55.819 --> 00:18:22.009 But Compassion fatigue, you know, compassion is for empathy is with. And so what gives us the fatigue is that we are traveling with someone, that instead of walking with them, we take, take their issues and bring them inside of us so we're carrying that burden instead of having it be alongside us. And so when you feel like a case is, is, is affecting you a lot, it's like how much have you absorbed it? How much. 49 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:42.769 What if you inhaled it in order so that it's now inside of you when you're carrying it rather than being the helper that's walking along. And so in our helping profession, we are continually exposed to dramatic stories and events and as legal professionals, we're not supposed to show any week. 50 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:18:42.769 --> 00:19:09.269 You know, deflect our vulnerability. Don't show any weakness in the case. Stay emotionally detached. And yet what we're given is the gift of telling their story. And, when you think about that, you say, ok, this person has a story to tell, I'm the one who can tell it. Whether it's in a negotiation where you're trying to get something done or in any other kind of a setting. You are. 51 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:19:09.269 --> 00:19:27.059 Telling the story in the context of the legal landscape. Now when we're exposed to trauma, there's, there's ways that we react and we see we see a lot of things. We do a lot of things. Every human being has exposure to trauma, and. 52 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:43.859 What should happen if things are happening as we hope is that you are within what's called a window of tolerance, where the impact on you is something that, ok, I'm noticing. Yes, I'm feeling this, but I'm able to function. 53 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:19:43.859 --> 00:20:03.859 And you are able to respond appropriately. There can be a hyper and a hypo level of arousal where you are not thinking clearly because of the impact that this exposure has had on you. So on the in the hyper aros arousal area, you might be panicking. 54 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:23.859 You are hyper vigilant, you might be angry, really, showing anxiety reactions. And so it's it's a stimulated stating stimulating kind of response and your heart rate might go up, your breathing is, is short, your shorter have more shortness of breath at some. 55 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:44.129 The hypoarousal is where you slow slow down or even shut down. And you're not gonna really feel like, well, why would I do these things that would take care of me? Who cares? Or you show poor boundaries? And so those are some of the places that that can go. And. 56 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:20:44.129 --> 00:21:04.129 When I, I mentioned this a little bit earlier when a trauma is triggered. This is the the stimulus that sets off the recollection that you remember it and it might be a taste, a smell, it can be all kinds of things that remind you of that place. And by the way, a trigger. 57 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:21:04.129 --> 00:21:19.589 Is also associated for people who are in some sort of recovery, a reminder of either a craving to use or a way that they felt depending on what kind of recovery they might be in. But we might. 58 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:21:19.589 --> 00:21:35.249 Begin to avoid things that remind us that triggered that, and that's where we might not get back to a client or something or a party. And what can happen is our emotional reaction can be as intense as what we experienced at the time of the trauma. 59 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:21:35.249 --> 00:21:55.249 So when we think about trauma, I want to give you some examples and and the 1st slide here is the things that we all know about, you know, war and natural disasters and assault and abuse and fear of whether you're gonna get out of life. These are the things that make the headlines. 60 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:21:55.249 --> 00:22:11.789 And they make the headlines every single day. But then I want to show you some slides that talk about, these are all sorts of legal issues and they may, their personal issues as well as things that may result in legal issues. 61 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:31.789 Okay, so you think about adoption, that's a happy thing and yet often adoption occurs because a child was traumatized and you're aware of that or it may show up later in how the child develops. But all of these kinds of things can result in legal problems and. 62 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:22:31.789 --> 00:23:01.429 And for those of you in public service, some of these are gonna be more common that these are the things you're dealing with. You might be in a job where trying to deal with helping with with homelessness as part of your job. You might be working in health and human services where you're thinking about the kinds of illnesses that people can get that affect their lives. And here are some others that can cause a traumatic reaction and I'm sure that if I asked, I. 63 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:23:01.429 --> 00:23:15.239 Would get, you know, another full page of these, the kinds of things that our experiences that could have an impact on how we develop and how we think about things and how we react to things and how we trust. 64 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:23:15.239 --> 00:23:35.239 And so what can happen, and this is looking at this hyper and hypo aerosal is when there is traumatic exposure, there's some things that will happen. And there are, I, I know some presenters who go into a description of how. 65 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:23:35.239 --> 00:24:05.339 How the brain reacts and and it's really fascinating stuff and I don't feel qualified to give that. But if you're interested in this, go, go look up polyvagal theory and and you can learn more about it. But our hyper arousal reactions are going to be fighting or fleeing. So we're either going to try to fend off whatever the attacker is, as we perceive it. So get away from me. 66 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:22.589 Or we're gonna run away. I'm going to outrun you. Climb a tree if you're being chased by a bear, and those are things that are necessary for our survival or we may feel they are in the moment because we feel threatened. And. 67 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:24:22.589 --> 00:24:42.589 The other side of it is we just treese, we stop. We might try to suck up to somebody. That's fonic, and I've also heard the term appeasing by a lawyer who talks about these things and does so very well. 68 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:24:42.589 --> 00:25:04.069 Where, you know, you're trying to appease someone, you're trying well it's ok. I it doesn't really matter. It's alright. You didn't hurt me, you know, just it's like you become less than in order to have less of an effect and make that thing go away. Or we faint, and that's like, it's like freezing except it's. 69 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:25:04.069 --> 00:25:38.779 Fainting, you're not aware freezing you are. And so these are some of the in the moment reactions, and so you may find yourself it's like, why am I reacting this way? And, I had one of these experiences where I, I had a childhood bully, older brother of a friend who would tease us and I was one of the people that that he teased. And later on in my adult life, I had a supervisor in a job, didn't last too long, which was a good thing, but they, they were kind of a bully, and. 70 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:25:38.779 --> 00:25:59.029 They had a voice that reminded me of this guy from my childhood, but I didn't know it. And I would just feel absolutely like I would freeze. I could not say anything. I felt incompetent. Just get me out of here, but I couldn't move. It was just like, I don't know what to do, I. 71 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:29.879 I didn't know what to say, that kind of thing. I had that reaction. It's like, what is wrong with me? And then one day it came to me, it's like, he sounds just like and and the name came into my head. And so that's what it was, is it was a trigger of, it was a traumatic reaction to that teasing, which, you know, in thinking about it, it wasn't that bad, except that we knew that if we didn't, if we reacted at all, it was gonna get worse. And so we just kinda waited till it went away. 72 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:26:29.879 --> 00:26:49.879 And that's where I was. Once I realized it, then, ok, now I know why I'm having that reaction and I was able to look at what had become of that older brother, which wasn't much, and, that was what I could associate with with the supervisor for the time that they were still there. So that's, that's the way it can happen. 73 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:26:49.879 --> 00:27:06.269 To you. Some of the risk factors that can be predictives for this is, you know, have you had a previous dramatic experience? Are you doing things that conflict with your values? Because sometimes that happens. And often in public service you're in a pretty good place. 74 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:27:06.269 --> 00:27:21.299 A lot of things we can't control, but if we don't realize that we can't control everything, we're gonna be more affected by that. And how are you taking care of yourself? And then within the workplace, do you have too much going on? 75 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:37.769 Are your cases particularly traumatic? I remember talking to a lawyer many years ago, gave me permission to repeat this story who worked in a law firm and was the one that kind of got the really messy icky cases and. 76 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:27:37.769 --> 00:27:57.769 They said, they said, you know, this used to be a badge of honor for me that I could handle the really tough stuff, but it's wearing on me and I I just don't know how long I can keep this up. And I, we talked about scripting about how to ask, how to say, can I have some of the ones that are sort of, you know, cut and dry and you figure it out. 77 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:27:57.769 --> 00:28:20.219 You just need to do the stuff and the problem is solved. It's like, oh, we thought you wanted those cases. Sure. And they were able to make the change by asking. Now it doesn't always happen that way, but asking sometimes is enough, and and we can coach you on that. I talked about isolation, that can be a challenge and and do we have the resources we need to do what we need to do? 78 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:28:20.219 --> 00:28:36.329 And so, it can affect the way we think, the way we feel, the way we treat our, our bodies, the way we take care of ourselves, and how we connect. And even if you don't meet diagnostic criteria, it affects us. 79 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:52.949 And we need to recognize that. And sometimes trauma and and think about clients you may have had or parties you may have dealt with, it's something that should have happened but didn't. So it's that hole that should that was not filled. And. 80 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:28:52.949 --> 00:29:11.609 You know, we are gonna have this exposure. It has an impact on us, but but we can use resilience strategies and other modalities to help deal with it. Some of the things that can help us are, this is this is the ABCs. It's being aware. 81 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:31.609 That, ok, this is affecting me. That, that supervisor had that same effect as that person. I became aware and it had less of an impact. It's finding balance. Where else am I doing things? Am I over committed to my work where I'm not paying attention to other things in my life? Because what I'm doing is so important and it is. 82 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:29:31.609 --> 00:29:52.759 But you need to bring your whole self and be your whole self. And then who am I connecting with and then what is your self care like? So, this is the point at which we stopped the program a week ago because we had sirens going off. 83 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:29:52.759 --> 00:30:10.499 Looking at a beautiful blue sky with with fluffly clouds right now, so I think we won't have that happen, but I wanna acknowledge sort of a natural break between where we were and where we're gonna go next. So what has happening next is what we did not talk about in the original program. 84 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:30:10.499 --> 00:30:30.689 When we look at how do I deal with my stress, we need to recognize the difference between the stress and the stressore. The stressore is what affects us. Sometimes we can control that, sometimes we can't. 85 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:30:30.689 --> 00:30:52.309 Stress is what we experience. It's what our bodies, how our bodies react to a real or imagined threat or demand. And to have this be something that has less of an impact on us, where are we resting? Where are we stepping away? Sometimes it's momentary. 86 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:30:52.309 --> 00:31:08.519 And other times it's going to be something larger. It could be a vacation. It could be some other way of resetting. You need to be able to express what's going on and you need to feel safe doing it. So. 87 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:24.089 I want to give you one little tool that is a way to rest, and that's a breathing exercise. And it's something that you can do very seruptitiously, it can be done. 88 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:31:24.089 --> 00:31:43.409 Where, before something where you know it's gonna be kind of, you're gonna be kind of anxious, it's like it's it's a way to reset, and it is not on a substitution for professional services or other kinds of things, but it's, it's an in the moment technique, and it's a breathing exercise. 89 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:31:43.409 --> 00:32:03.409 And there are many of them out there. If you researched breathing exercises to reduce anxiety or to reset, you would find many of them. But this is when I liken it's called square breathing or box breathing. And what it is, is that you inhale for four counts, you exhale for fork I'm sorry, you hold for four. 90 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:32:03.409 --> 00:32:32.279 You exhale for four and you hold for four. And so I'm gonna take you through that and I'd like you to make yourself comfortable. I can't see any of you so you can close your eyes or not if you wish, but I'm gonna walk you through square breathing. So start out inhale for four hold exhale. 91 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:54.769 Hold, and ideally you do that three times, but we just did it once. And when I do that, I, the noise around me and I can't tell you how, but it changes and it's only white noise, but it changes. 92 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:32:54.769 --> 00:33:22.919 And my shoulders go down. But what is really happening is your brain stepped aside for a moment to count, and now you start over because when you have all these balls in the air, you're not gonna think that clearly sometimes. And, if anyone wants to put in the chat some other reaction they had or something that a benefit they get from some sort of breathing or calming exercise, that would be very welcome if you'd like to do that. 93 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:33:22.919 --> 00:33:42.919 Alright, now we're gonna move on to some of the things that are why you need this credit, talking about some of the challenges in our profession and the things that can happen if we're not being, if our stress is too much for us. And there can be other reasons that that we have these problems, but stress is a predictor for. 94 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:33:42.919 --> 00:34:08.599 All of them. And that includes data increases in unhealthy coping behavior. And so here we've got some information about alcohol use, and this is based on a study that was published in 2016, and it's about problematic drinking. So this does not mean people where, absence would be recommended. They haven't gotten that level of assessment. It's rather people are drinking at a level that the. 95 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:36.649 Profession would say that's more than you should be drinking for your health. And so for the population as a whole, when this was done, which was 2015, pre pandemic, six and a half percent of us drinking unhealthy waste. When you look at judges, it's nine and a half percent. When you look at lawyers overall, it's 20.6 %, and when you look at lawyers who are 30 years old or younger, it's 32 %, alright? So we're doing. 96 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:34:36.649 --> 00:34:56.649 Thinking more than the doctors think we should at a higher rate than the population as a whole. There it is. And so is it because we have more stress? What are the reasons there, there it is. And recognizing that and realizing that, you know, I've been having three glasses of wine every single night for the last two weeks. 97 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:34:56.649 --> 00:35:20.569 So I wonder what's going on. That's a good time to ask that question. For some people it's gonna be, my drinking is out of control. I just can't do this anymore. And I have to tell you that there are, are probably thousands of, probably thousands of lawyers in Minnesota who are in recovery. And they're really excellent wonderful lawyers because that is the choice they have made. And then there are people. 98 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:35:20.569 --> 00:35:40.569 People who have made changes in the way they drink because they dealt with something that was going on or they didn't like the health effects. And, you know, there's the sober curious mo mo movement, there's all kinds of things going on around the use of alcohol. But when we're talking about a disorder, this isn't something where it's got factors that. 99 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:35:40.569 --> 00:36:12.379 Could impact us in every way. It could come from our genetics or not. It could be what we grew up in or not. But what it means is that we have impaired control over our use. And that might mean binging, it might mean drinking every day and drinking more than you should, but what it results in is that you lose control over the choice whether or not to drink because your brain is telling you that you need it more than life itself. In fact, that it is life itself. That's what happens when you have gotten to the point where you have a serio. 100 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:36:12.379 --> 00:36:32.379 Substance use disorder, and the other thing it tells us is that we don't have a problem. And so denial can be a part of it. And so you may have been in a case where the absolute last thing that somebody should have done is come to court under the influence, and yet they did. 101 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:36:32.379 --> 00:36:48.119 That's what substance use disorder looks like. So the worst thing they could have done for their case, and yet they did. Some of the signs for people in our profession or for anybody personally is there a change in behavior? 102 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:36:48.119 --> 00:37:08.119 And we have changed in appearance here, but that's not always necessary because it might mean that, ok, if I'm gonna look sloppier, if I have a problem, I'm gonna approve I don't have a problem by making sure I really look great. And so, you know, that's, that's one that can go either way, but where it can be more noticeable is when you kind of. 103 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:30.089 I wonder if you can really trust the person. Professionally, the people who are at the same level or being supervised by the individual, they're gonna notice that their emergencies and they're being called in to do things at the last minute that somebody isn't there when they're supposed to be and at a higher level, what's gonna be noticed is production. 104 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:37:30.089 --> 00:37:50.089 It's not just alcohol, but that's the most common one for our profession. It's every kind of drug. We are starting to see the impact of people having issues with marijuana. It's only anecdotal so far, but you know, I mean there are people who have always smoke pot and they just do, ok? And that's. 105 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:37:50.089 --> 00:38:13.969 A percentage of our profession as well as everywhere else, but it's been illegal and now it's becoming legal in many many different ways and so people are using it and just like if alcohol had been illegal and now it was and people were using it, some are gonna develop problems. And we're seeing the same thing with marijuana. And what the manifestation is, is we're particularly seeing. 106 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:38:13.969 --> 00:38:41.000 This is nationwide anecdotally among my colleagues, we don't have enough for data yet, is, is kind of more paranoia and that's that's what seems to be present. All of these other issues compulsive behaviors, you may see some of them in your cases, but they are all things where the brain is desiring something more than life itself, when it gets to a serious degree. 107 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:59.550 And it doesn't matter if it's something you ingest or something you do. So compulsive gambling or compulsive viewing of porn or we can even talk about eating disorders where starving oneself or. 108 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:19.550 Eating and then purging. These are all, these are all things that affect us and there is treatment for all of them. Eating is the only one where you absolutely have to do it, you know? I mean you sexual compulsivity, you know, we don't want to live about sex without sex, but we could, society. 109 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:39.550 They would survive if everybody did, but eating disorders are a little bit different and so they're particularly dangerous because of that and there's a lot of shame around those. These are, these are all things where lawyers have a lot of shame asking for help on them and yet there are many people who are in recovery for all of these issues. 110 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:39:39.550 --> 00:40:05.210 There's even an ethics case around someone who was a compulsive shoplifter. So the questions we ask around substances is, are, are it's called the cage test and the question and I want you to think about someone you're concerned about, and it maybe someone you were concerned about and they got help, you can think about them. So have you ever wished they would cut down, just have less. You. 111 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:40:05.210 --> 00:40:25.830 You're amine drunk, just have less. Have you annoyed them by criticizing or even commenting on their use? Did you think you've had enough? Have they apologized? What happened last night? I, I didn't really mean that. Did I say anything? And in the case of alcohol, you might need an eye opener. 112 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:40:25.830 --> 00:40:45.830 Because of the hangover. So it could be one, two, all of these things where it's like, yeah, this is happening or this is happening with this person. When we talk about other mental health issues, the ones we're gonna talk about mostly are anxiety and depression. And that same study I talked about earlier. 113 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:40:45.830 --> 00:41:05.830 Over one and four of us met criteria for depressive disorder at some time during our careers and almost one in five for anxiety. I think when there's a new study that's gonna come out and if you remember of the state Bar association, you may receive it because they're doing a randomized distribution, so you may or may not get it. 114 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:41:05.830 --> 00:41:21.630 And, they're gonna get new data. But anecdotally, I think we're gonna see that more people are are thinking and meeting criteria for anxiety than depression. Depression may not go down, but anxiety is gonna go up. 115 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:41:21.630 --> 00:41:41.630 And eleven and a half percent had, when asked the question, have you considered suicides said yes? And this is a very serious topic and it's one that we do programs on. I did one for Minnesota CLI earlier today, and there is a program on demand suicide prevention on the Minnesota State Lawrey website. 116 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:41:41.630 --> 00:42:03.950 And, LCL is is always is wanting to do these programs because we take this very seriously. But you know, if you are concerned about someone who might be suicidal, it's ok to ask and it's ok to ask for coaching and 988 will get you to a suicide prevention hotline either dialing or texting. 117 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:42:03.950 --> 00:42:24.990 Because it's a permanent decision, but often it can be interrupted. So ask for help if you're concerned about someone and if you find yourself going in that direction where it seems like a reasonable option, you are not thinking clearly and getting some help as soon as possible is going to be important. 118 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:42:24.990 --> 00:42:44.160 So unresolved chronic stress is the number one predictor for depression and depression is the number one predictor for suicidal ideation. And where depression shows up for us, well for anybody, it's loss of interest in normally pleasurable activities for. 119 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:42:44.160 --> 00:43:04.160 For lawyers, it's losing or having or lessening the ability to concentrate remember and decide. And so when we notice it affects our work, we start to notice it. And for, you know, look for changes in behavior if you're concerned about someone, is it different? Think to six months ago now. 120 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:25.370 Two weeks ago. And other mental health issues I mentioned anxiety, but all of these things are present, and you notice I'm calling them issues not illnesses because e.g. we have ADHD, which is a form of neurodiversity, and we're all neurodiverse. And by the way, we have support group for people with with diagnosed with ADHD. 121 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:43:25.370 --> 00:43:42.930 But all of these are things for which there is help available in our profession. And so when we think about these mental health issues, what we ask are, you know, in the last two weeks, have you been feeling particularly down? 122 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:43:42.930 --> 00:43:58.080 Or angry or anxious or had difficulty concentrating remembering and deciding. Have you thought about suicide at all, don't wait two weeks. It's time to get some help and there's help available. The bottom of every slide has lcl's contact information. 123 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:43:58.080 --> 00:44:19.700 And we have provided materials for you to read about this more and to see how you can get help. So what can you do? Well, I like this com, this comment to the rule on diligence. A lawyer's workload must be controlled so that each matter can be handled competently. If you feel like, you know, and it's a comment, so it guides. 124 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:44:19.700 --> 00:44:42.380 Not governs, but if you feel like that's you, and it's not happening, that's permission to say, ok, something has to change. Who can help me do that? And LCL is one of those places. So in the workplace making sure that everyone know that there there's a non threatening reporting option if someone is concerned. 125 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:44:42.380 --> 00:44:58.200 About somebody because people at different levels are gonna notice different things and and all people in a workplace should be aware of those resources available. And you know, when benefits are sent out, is an LCL link part of that? 126 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:14.820 It could be. When someone is concerned about someone, we can, we can coach you on how to reach out to them and give you information to give to them. We also can do our own response kinda depending on the circumstances. 127 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:31.890 We have very specific protocols for when and how we reach out and we would talk with you about that. But confidentiality is our absolute hallmark. So nobody's gonna know who contacted us if you're concerned about someone, but sometimes they know who it is and maybe that's ok, but we're not gonna tell them. 128 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:45:31.890 --> 00:45:50.460 If you are thinking about reaching out to someone, there's a, there's a very kind of, this is the basic protocol, and this is the framework that we start with when we're coaching someone on how do you talk to someone you're concerned about? And so you start with that relationship. 129 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:45:50.460 --> 00:46:07.080 And and you you talk about it and why they're important to you. And then you talk about the specific evidence, and then you talk about the impact on you because they may say, well, you shouldn't feel that way or even it's unreasonable for you to feel that way. 130 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:46:07.080 --> 00:46:27.080 But you do. And so they can say that, but they know. And so it's NO longer just them, it's affecting you. And it could be your fears, it could be your sadness. And then you listen because maybe this is what they've needed. It's just someone to say, you know, it's, we're noticing. 131 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:46:27.080 --> 00:46:48.740 And we're worried about you. And then you have a plan. Here's what I'd like you to do and here's what I'll do to support you. And we can also coach you on what those options might be. When people move into some sort of recovery, you know, there's there's a lot of correlations when, whether you're looking at substance use or other mental health issues, but they both involve some sort. 132 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:46:48.740 --> 00:47:14.150 Sort of because when when you're, when you're in the depth of depression or dealing with anxiety or finding yourself unable to stop using, you're only thinking about yourself because you need it and that's what it looks like. And recovery includes, I can be someone to someone else. And these are some of the other things that might be part of. 133 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:47:14.150 --> 00:47:34.760 That. What happens as it moves along is you move from, having a sense of dread and you might be high functioning or so you think, but you're not happy to feeling fulfilled and finding that yes, I have challenges in my life, but I have tools and recognizing that it's a journey, not just. 134 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:56.420 Just a destination. So now what? What do we do with this? Well, after the data came out, this report was published, the path to lawyer wellbeing. And it made recommendations for a number of stakeholders including legal employers and the links to all of this are in your materials. 135 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:47:56.420 --> 00:48:28.460 And they looked at well being as of a series as as a series of factors, and you can see what they identified here. We've got occupational intellectual on the top of the slide and then beneath that, we have emotional, social physical, and spiritual wellbeing. And so you think about ok occupational intellectual are up on top, so they're the most important. Well, that's our best thinking right there. But everything else is the foundation for that best thinking, and so how is your foundation? 136 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:48:28.460 --> 00:48:48.460 And recognizing that there's also cultural well being, but rather than its own circle, we thought that it made sense to have it be something that is a lens through where all of these exist. And that can be things like race and gender, but it's also gonna be what part of the country or. 137 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:48:48.460 --> 00:49:22.760 That you grew up in or what kind of sports team you support or things like that, some of which are more foundational and some of which are like who you hang out with. And so recognizing that that affects all of them. And when we look at how we build resilience in the face of trauma, I have a couple of things to talk to you about. I like the definition of resilience. You've got two of them here, the ability to persist in the face of challenges and bounce back from adversity. That's from the military, and you know, we're in an. 138 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:41.970 Cereal system. So even if you're in a position where your job is to advise, you're gonna have people pushing back when you do that. And when we look at resilience, it's gonna have benefits for things ranging from immunity, which five and a half years ago we didn't care about as much to how much we. 139 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:49:41.970 --> 00:50:01.740 Feel that somebody is after us, that perception of pain and threat. And so how we respond to trauma, how we respond to, anything that seems like it might be a threat, but it also maybe a threat that we is not real. 140 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:50:01.740 --> 00:50:21.740 Like you're walking down a hallway and somebody's got something on their mind and they're walking past you and they didn't say hello and suddenly they are the worst person in the world because they had something on their mind because you are reacting to something that you perceive that isn't real or it can be real. But the point is that you then develop opinions about things based on it now. 141 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:50:21.740 --> 00:50:44.090 Not being exactly how you think and that's where bias comes from. And so resiliency also helps to reduce bias. When we look at at the concept of how do we recover from trauma, there's there's something called by carious resilience. And originally it was something that we saw in people. 142 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:50:44.090 --> 00:51:04.090 Who who were victims of of torture and other tragedies. The center for victims of torture based in Minnesota had a, a wonderful article about this a few years back. But it's also something that we can, you can see in parties and clients and and the concept of vikarious resilience has been adapted to behavioral. 143 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:51:04.090 --> 00:51:27.770 Health professions where it's like it's, it's not so much that concentrating on what the bad thing is, but what is the opportunity for growth coming out of that? So, the vikarious resilience theories talk about three C's challenge control and commitment. And. 144 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:51:27.770 --> 00:51:53.630 The 1st one is challenged, so understanding that, ok, I'm gonna be challenged. Now that could be a good thing or it could be something that's negative, but you can say, how can I turn this into something I learned from? And, I talked to people in my job who might have come out of a, like a difficult work environment sometimes even to the level of toxic and and it's like, it's really it's still living with them, it's still hurting them and. 145 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:51:53.630 --> 00:52:12.540 And one of the phrases I like to use and it's not my original phrase, but it's sort of like, they did not intend to be your teacher. But let how can we make them into your teacher? What can you learn? Because one of the ways you can get back at them is to grow from this experience, right? And so. 146 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:52:12.540 --> 00:52:32.540 Managing change when you have, when you have to deal with it rather than avoiding it because then it will just stay with you but managing it's like, what do I do with this? What where's, where am I gonna go with this? And recognizing that sometimes you have to put something on the shelf behind you and it's still gonna be there, but you don't have to have it in your own. 147 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:52:32.540 --> 00:52:57.480 Terms right now. Sometimes it motivates you and and the when if you've ever taken an imcroft class, they talk about yes and, you know, somebody says something and you you're supposed like yes and and you go to some next positive thing. And so you look at this challenge that's like yes and what can I do with this? And sometimes that means to somebody and that's who you're representing, right? 148 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:12.600 And then commitment, what is your purpose and meaning? Where do you find it? How can you reframe what has happened to you? How does it help you grow? How does it help you make be more effective? You know, a lawyer who was. 149 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:53:12.600 --> 00:53:28.110 A Dealt with the legal system as a party or as a defendant or as, you know, whatever it might be. It's gonna understand what those people are going through. How can you become curious with it? And then what is the difference that you can make? 150 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:53:28.110 --> 00:53:47.010 What is my role and what's the difference I can make with this? And this all sounds like really rose colored glasses in a way, but at the same time, we're faced with these experiences and we, one of the things we can control is how we do our best work and sometimes these experiences unfortunately, are gonna help us to do that best work. 151 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:53:47.010 --> 00:54:02.310 And then looking for where you find the meaning in your work. How does it contribute to the greater good but also how does it fit with your values? And that's what helps us to be engaged as opposed to be burned out. 152 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:54:02.310 --> 00:54:20.220 So we can't always control the outcome, but can you influence it? Maybe, maybe not. What if you can't? Can you move on? Can you accept that? But sometimes you have to really figure out, is there anything I can change about this? Not really. Okay, well that's that. Now, what can I do? 153 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:54:20.220 --> 00:54:38.940 And so you can accept it or change it. Where is your best work? Where can you do it? Because it maybe that this thing over here is a nothing burger, but it just kind of annoyed you. And I think that it's helpful to look at. 154 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:58.940 Like like imagining a stressful situation and taking a look at what your perspective is because our job is to look for the worst that could happen, so we can take any stressful situation and we can catastraphize it, right? And oh my god, this will happen. And so the example I love to use. 155 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:54:58.940 --> 00:55:18.940 Which if you've got been to our programs before you've heard and it's that, you know, you get a letter from the lawyer's board and you see that letter and what happens? You like your heart goes into your, your, into your stomach or something happens like that. And it's like, oh my god, what's gonna happen? I'm gonna lose my license, I missed something. 156 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:55:18.940 --> 00:55:36.660 And so you ignore it. I don't know what this is, I don't want to know, I can't deal with it. What's the worst that could happen? Well, eventually, you would be administratively suspended for not responding. And what must I do for that to happen? Absolutely nothing. 157 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:55:36.660 --> 00:55:53.820 Okay? What's the best that could happen? Oh, and by the way, how likely is that? Over 90 % of the complaints are dismissed? What's the best that could happen? It is a summary dismissal that's like, hey, we got a complaint, we didn't do anything, thought you should know. 158 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:55:53.820 --> 00:56:13.710 In fact, it, I used to say it could be an invitation to the semi annual seminar, but now they put on the outside seminar materials and closed, but maybe you missed that. So what's the best that could happen? It's an invitation to the seminar. What can I do? Open it, alright? So you have gone from being the victim or the passenger to being the driver. What can you control? 159 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:56:13.710 --> 00:56:31.140 Cause you can't control the other lawyer or the judge if it's a, if it's a judicial situation or the other party or your client, you can control your best work. And so where do you find meaning in that? 160 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:56:31.140 --> 00:56:51.140 Where do you find meaning in what you do? Think about that. And I love showing this diagram, which I wanna credit the state Bar Association with. I, I had the concept and I put it in an article and they came up with this diagram, and it's called ekagaguide. Or the the concept is called ekagai. It's your reason for being. And so I want you to think about what. 161 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:56:51.140 --> 00:57:10.320 Is your reason for getting up each morning. And it maybe because I can walk with someone through what they have experienced and find a way to take care of myself after that or whatever it is for you. And. 162 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:26.370 It starts with what you love. What do you love about what you do? Be specific. And what do you do well? And that intersects to make it that your passion. What can you be paid for? That's what you're doing. That's your profession. 163 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:57:26.370 --> 00:57:43.800 What does the world need? That's your vocation, and then you go back to what the world needs and what you love and who you love, and that's your mission. So think about that and where you can, where you can use that. 164 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:57:43.800 --> 00:58:03.800 And then the last strategy is showing that vulnerability, and that's sometimes asking for help. That's by coming to us, coming to our organization, which by the way, your lawyer license fee helps pay for it. So you're already paying for it. You may as well use it. 165 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:58:03.800 --> 00:58:24.770 And thinking about asking for help from your connections because one of the most effective ways to mitigate the impact of trauma is to decompress with colleagues who get it. I'm on a list serve with people who do what I do. And any time one of us has. 166 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:58:24.770 --> 00:58:48.680 Someone who like we did our best but they didn't make it, we share. And, I it feels like a virtual trust paul. Where is your virtual trust paul? And so it's not war stories and can you top this? That can actually be destructive, but rather finding those commonalities and giving support and sometimes just listening and saying, oh, I'm. 167 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:58:48.680 --> 00:59:19.640 So sorry and other times it's like, yeah, I had one of those and this is what, this is what helped me if you want to know. And by the way, this is what came after and so it isn't always all bad, but just being there for each other. And knowing that lawyers concerned for lawyers will help you with free counseling. If you have your your state EAP or your your county EAP or your employer EAP and you can stack those benefits, we're absolutely confidential, we have support groups, we have peer support, we will go out to other. 168 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:59:19.640 --> 00:59:39.640 Organizations and agencies and do programs. We partner with this organization, that's the EAP and that's more info all the links are in your materials and you can go directly to them and you can also find all sorts of really wonderful articles on their website as well as on ours. And so I encourage you to take a look at that website. 169 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 00:59:39.640 --> 01:00:03.598 Follow us on social media if you do that because we try to post a lot of really good tips that people can use. So I want to thank you for your time today. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to come back. I'm really grateful for this and this help@MNLCL.org at the bottom of the slide, that email address comes directly to me. So please don't hesitate to reach out if we can help you in. 170 "David Cullen" (2078431744) 01:00:03.598 --> 01:00:34.597 Anyway, thank you so much Joan. From the attorney General's office, we wanna again congratulate you on your well deserved retirement and extend a heartfelt thank you for all that you've done for the legal profession to destigmatize issues related to mental and chemical health and to help us become stronger, healthier, and more helpful, hopeful in our personal and professional lives. We wish you Joan much happiness sunshine and blue skies ahead Many thanks to you and to all who joined us today. 171 "Joan Bibelhausen" (2282687744) 01:00:34.597 --> 01:00:37.290 Take good care, everyone. Thank you, John. Thank you.